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Author: Subject: hm.. maybe development academy is not a great idea? - [17 Replies | 2266 Views]
messi
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posted on 1/31/17 at 02:52 PM Reply With Quote
hm.. maybe development academy is not a great idea?

this study suggests success at the highest level of all sports is not correlated with early youth performance. Also, playing multiple sports is good.. oh well

https://www.redsports.sg/2016/12/03/youth-athlete-development-conference/

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posted on 1/31/17 at 03:14 PM Reply With Quote
they even studied german national team soccer which is pretty relevant to this group
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posted on 1/31/17 at 08:29 PM Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally posted by messi

they even studied german national team soccer which is pretty relevant to this group



Good find Messi. DA rules prohibiting participation in other sports (I think they are wide spread) goes directly counter to the findings in this article.

“What these results say is that to attain higher youth success, it is beneficial to increase the volume of sports specific practise in the main sport while engagement in other sports is either indifferent or even inhibitory to rapid juvenile success.

“But when we have a look at the juvenile activities with regard to long-term, international senior success, it is just the opposite. The world-class athlete differs from those who made it only to national class, not by having engaged in more sports specific training in their main sport, this was indifferent, or they even trained less at a young age at their later main sport, but consistently, they engaged in more activity in other sports.”

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posted on 2/1/17 at 07:04 AM Reply With Quote
I guess I'm not sure why DA was singled out here except for the whole high school no other sports thing. I can honestly say that age 4 -10 there were some kids I knew who played soccer and basketball. After age 10 they either dropped out of soccer and/or gave up basketball. That specialization in sport happened long before the DA years in my personal experience.
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posted on 2/1/17 at 08:56 AM Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally posted by messi

they even studied german national team soccer which is pretty relevant to this group



I believe in the merits of playing multiple sports growing up, but at some point athletes have to specialize, at what age is most appropriate is probable a very personal decision.

With that said, I would still like to see the data from this study. A lot of quotes, but not much data provided.

Just out of curiosity, last night I took a look at the German National team members bios. I did look a multiple sources, below is Thomas Muller's wikipedia page which is pretty accurate as compared to his bio at Bayern Munich.

Almost all of the players on the German National team follow this same progression.

Ages 4-11 playing at some small local club
Ages 11-18 Move to a large club, usually a Bundesliga club

Muller, specially moved to Bayern Munich at age 11 and has been with the club ever since. He may not have been marked for a youth national team until U16, but he was getting some very high level coaching and training at a young age. Also, he may have been playing multiple sports from u11 thru u16 as a part of his overall development.

Just as different view.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_M%C3%BCller

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posted on 2/1/17 at 09:43 AM Reply With Quote
Anyone who thinks HS and college soccer are beneficial to a player's development is delusional.
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posted on 2/1/17 at 10:25 AM Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally posted by The Cynic

Anyone who thinks HS and college soccer are beneficial to a player's development is delusional.



non sequiter, the article has nothing to do with high school. simply suggests that making kids drop sports when younger may be detrimental to later success. Also, that being "identified" younger as a superstar has little bearing on later success.

"Successful senior athletes in Germany were selected later

“There were athletes who did not exceed initial D squad (regional junior squad), they were first recruited into the system at 15 years. The C squad (the national junior squad) were first recruited at the age of 17. Those who made it to senior world class (A squad) were first recruited at 19 years. So the more successful at the senior level, the later was the recruitment into the talent development system.”

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posted on 2/1/17 at 10:26 AM Reply With Quote
I may be wrong, about this but it seems that the US may not encourage the "turnover" from young national teams to older ones, that may be more typical in other countries.

Seems like in the US once you are in the pipeline you stay there.

also, this does not evaluate whether a German 2nd or 3rd level team is still getting better training than a US top team...

[Edited on 2/1/17 by messi]

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posted on 2/1/17 at 11:06 AM Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally posted by messi

I may be wrong, about this but it seems that the US may not encourage the "turnover" from young national teams to older ones, that may be more typical in other countries.

Seems like in the US once you are in the pipeline you stay there.

also, this does not evaluate whether a German 2nd or 3rd level team is still getting better training than a US top team...

[Edited on 2/1/17 by messi]



I agree, and it also seems once a kid is passed over for the first or maybe second opening of the pipeline, they won't get in.

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posted on 2/1/17 at 11:44 AM Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally posted by Liverpoolfan9

Quote:
Originally posted by messi

I may be wrong, about this but it seems that the US may not encourage the "turnover" from young national teams to older ones, that may be more typical in other countries.

Seems like in the US once you are in the pipeline you stay there.

also, this does not evaluate whether a German 2nd or 3rd level team is still getting better training than a US top team...

[Edited on 2/1/17 by messi]



I agree, and it also seems once a kid is passed over for the first or maybe second opening of the pipeline, they won't get in.



Since US Soccer recycle coaches(Arena and his posse of grey-haired puppets)why not recycle players?

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posted on 2/1/17 at 02:37 PM Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally posted by Liverpoolfan9

Quote:
Originally posted by messi

I may be wrong, about this but it seems that the US may not encourage the "turnover" from young national teams to older ones, that may be more typical in other countries.

Seems like in the US once you are in the pipeline you stay there.

also, this does not evaluate whether a German 2nd or 3rd level team is still getting better training than a US top team...

[Edited on 2/1/17 by messi]



I agree, and it also seems once a kid is passed over for the first or maybe second opening of the pipeline, they won't get in.



True also of kids on club soccer teams. Once you're labeled a "top team" or "second team" player, it's difficult (I didn't say impossible, but difficult) to shed that label. Seems to me that too many clubs and DA's hang on to players because they're familiar with them instead of looking for other players to replace them. I've seen cases where the talent level of the bottom 4-5 players on a DA team isn't as good as the talent of some players on high level local classic teams. And when the DA coach has a son on the team, the son's best friends seem to find roster spots.

[Edited on 2/1/17 by JoanneT]

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posted on 2/1/17 at 05:38 PM Reply With Quote
Interesting read, but I saw nothing that indicated they had studied the German National soccer team only that they looked at their Olympic medalists. The statement that the medalists did not start their sport specific training until age of 20 definitely does not apply to soccer. In fact, beginning at age 15, those playing serious soccer are treating it like a trade or job. They get way more training from the ages of 15 to 18 than our players do and it is the reason US players coming through US programs do not reach their peaks until 3 or 4 years later than Europeans and South Americans. Look at Christian Pulisic who joined Dortmund at 15 compared to kids that have come through the US system.
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posted on 2/1/17 at 10:20 PM Reply With Quote
USDA does not prevent you from playing other sports only Soccer. The decision to not play other sports is a club decision if the players are not allowed.


[Edited on 2/2/17 by pantherfanz]

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posted on 2/1/17 at 10:44 PM Reply With Quote
Just looked at the players that played for Germany in the final game of the 2014 world cup. They had 1 player that turned professional at age 20, 4 turned at 19, five at 18 and 4 at 17. In other words waiting until 20 to specialize is a little late for one of the teams referenced in the article.
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posted on 4/3/17 at 04:04 PM Reply With Quote
Many of the top Academies in Europe will have their younger players (U11/12 and below) practising multiple sports. Ajax, for example, have their younger players taking part in Judo and Basketball as well as Soccer, due to athletic benefits. During teen years though, players are expected to focus on Soccer.

Certainly the link between youth and adult performance is a valid point. A fomrer player of ours is trying out for the U14 USWNT for the Fall. Having spoken to her Dad, only 2 players have gone trhough all of the youth national teams into the first team - Mia Hamm & Mallory Pugh.

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posted on 4/5/17 at 10:08 AM Reply With Quote
All of the youth teams being which ones? u14, u16, u17, u18, u20, u23?
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posted on 4/6/17 at 07:17 AM Reply With Quote
Quote:
Originally posted by Tecnico_CH17

All of the youth teams being which ones? u14, u16, u17, u18, u20, u23?



That wasn't mentioned and looking into it a bit deeper, we should have done our research. But this was teh communication that was passed onto the Dad at tryouts.

It is a consistent message that standout performance at youth level is not the be all and end all. Anything could happen to players mentality in High School, when outside social factors come into play.

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posted on 4/17/17 at 08:54 PM Reply With Quote
What other sports did Messi and Ronaldo play and at what age did they start specializing in soccer?


We mock what we do not understand...

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