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Author: Subject: 2015 Tryouts - [207 Replies | 20562 Views]
TwoHalves
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posted on 5/19/15 at 06:06 AM
2015 Tryouts

With the first day of tryouts in the books, how did it go?
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posted on 5/19/15 at 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by TwoHalves

With the first day of tryouts in the books, how did it go?

Impressive showing in terms of numbers at both TFCA and CASL tryouts. With CASL South ramping up the Triangle will have enough "classic" teams to form their own leagues.

2 players from top TFCA current U14 girls team trying out at CASL, including top goalie in TFCA.
4 players from top TFCA current U13 girls team trying out at CASL.

Older girls tried out earlier so not sure of flow between clubs in those ages.

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posted on 5/19/15 at 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by SoccerDad

[quote]Originally posted by TwoHalves



2 players from top TFCA current U14 girls team trying out at CASL, including top goalie in TFCA.
4 players from top TFCA current U13 girls team trying out at CASL.

Older girls tried out earlier so not sure of flow between clubs in those ages.



you mean the goalie with WNT recognition, rising U15.
If so too bad the US doesn't have transfer fees, since that player is already recognized as one of the top in the US. The system of talent collection, with no incentive for development is why the US will eventually fall behind the rest of the world in women's too. Especially if latin american culture ever puts the same values on women in soccer as men.

recent U14 boys national team vs Serbia, very even match tied 1-1. The amount the US spends on soccer exceeds the serbian national GDP. The GDP of north carolina is about 10 times that of Serbia and the population of Serbia is less than NC. Yet these teams looked very even.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlUEP6FPgm4

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posted on 5/19/15 at 08:15 AM
It is good for players that CASL / TFCA tryouts don't overlap. It allows everyone to go to both places; albeit a little tired for the 2nd event.
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posted on 5/19/15 at 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anony

Quote:
Originally posted by SoccerDad

[quote]Originally posted by TwoHalves



2 players from top TFCA current U14 girls team trying out at CASL, including top goalie in TFCA.
4 players from top TFCA current U13 girls team trying out at CASL.

Older girls tried out earlier so not sure of flow between clubs in those ages.



you mean the goalie with WNT recognition, rising U15.
If so too bad the US doesn't have transfer fees, since that player is already recognized as one of the top in the US. The system of talent collection, with no incentive for development is why the US will eventually fall behind the rest of the world in women's too. Especially if latin american culture ever puts the same values on women in soccer as men.

recent U14 boys national team vs Serbia, very even match tied 1-1. The amount the US spends on soccer exceeds the serbian national GDP. The GDP of north carolina is about 10 times that of Serbia and the population of Serbia is less than NC. Yet these teams looked very even.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlUEP6FPgm4

That is the girl. I will check into the transfer fee! I would be careful in crediting any club with too much talent development points. Many of the top players train with their club, Next Level Academy, Railhawk Elite Technique, SportsHQ, play indoor or futsal often on a non-club team, plus endless private and small-group sessions that the clubs often discourage. Goalies in particular don't get much goalie training at the medium and small sized clubs. So giving a club too much credit for player development for the 2-3 years the girl spent at TFCA is an overreach.

Now if we had a true Academy system for girls, where the top girls played year-around for one club, and that club commitment included all of the indoor, futsal, small-group, mixed-age training, performance training, position-specific training etc. - then the club could take more credit. Clubs on the girls side are clearly trying to head that way and be more comprehensive (though capturing the money flow is important to them as well, so it is not all about development) and year-around. I think is some places (Boston Breakers?) with a pro women's team an Academy mindset and program is taking over.

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posted on 5/19/15 at 08:27 AM
[quote]Originally posted by SoccerDad

That is the girl. I will check into the transfer fee! I would be careful in crediting any club with too much talent development points. Many of the top players train with their club, Next Level Academy, Railhawk Elite Technique, SportsHQ, play indoor or futsal often on a non-club team, plus endless private and small-group sessions that the clubs often discourage. Goalies in particular don't get much goalie training at the medium and small sized clubs. So giving a club too much credit for player development for the 2-3 years the girl spent at TFCA is an overreach.

_____________

Indeed. She (and her devoted parents) get all of the credit for her development on her own time outside of team trainings. She's the hardest working girl in the triangle. Best of luck to her in her new adventure.

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posted on 5/19/15 at 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AHW



_____________

Indeed. She (and her devoted parents) get all of the credit for her development on her own time outside of team trainings. She's the hardest working girl in the triangle. Best of luck to her in her new adventure.



likely absolutely true. Am in no way minimizing her efforts and talent! When she commits to college my point is CASL will get the credit even though it's clear she earned it before they even came into the picture. My larger point is the whole soccer industrial complex in the US is incredibly warped, the amount of money spent and numbers of players playing is huge, particularly on the women's side. And that there's no FINANCIAL incentive for actually developing players and teams, only filling slots. (why some teams have 18 players on it seems, nuts, leads to disgruntled players , lack of playing time, high quitting/turnover - strictly done for finances.) If at any point in time latin america tones down their chauvinism and treats women the same in men's soccer they will be kicking our butts on the women's side.
CASL should be paying her to play for them, not the other way around.

http://www.trianglefc.org/news_article/show/485676?referrer_id=952873

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]

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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anony

Quote:
Originally posted by AHW



_____________

Indeed. She (and her devoted parents) get all of the credit for her development on her own time outside of team trainings. She's the hardest working girl in the triangle. Best of luck to her in her new adventure.



likely absolutely true. Am in no way minimizing her efforts and talent! When she commits to college my point is CASL will get the credit even though it's clear she earned it before they even came into the picture. My larger point is the whole soccer industrial complex in the US is incredibly warped, the amount of money spent and numbers of players playing is huge, particularly on the women's side. And that there's no FINANCIAL incentive for actually developing players and teams, only filling slots. (why some teams have 18 players on it seems, nuts, leads to disgruntled players , lack of playing time, high quitting/turnover - strictly done for finances.) If at any point in time latin america tones down their chauvinism and treats women the same in men's soccer they will be kicking our butts on the women's side.
CASL should be paying her to play for them, not the other way around.

http://www.trianglefc.org/news_article/show/485676?referrer_id=952873

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]



Anony, you have made some rather enlightening comments lately especially regarding the US system being a system of talent collection rather than talent development. That hit home, so thanks, this is why I participate on the forum.

So, I will meet you half way on your comment above in regards to CASL should pay this player. How do you think CASL would react if this family just said, we will play for CASL but we are not paying any club fees.


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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anony

Quote:
Originally posted by AHW



_____________

Indeed. She (and her devoted parents) get all of the credit for her development on her own time outside of team trainings. She's the hardest working girl in the triangle. Best of luck to her in her new adventure.



likely absolutely true. Am in no way minimizing her efforts and talent! When she commits to college my point is CASL will get the credit even though it's clear she earned it before they even came into the picture. My larger point is the whole soccer industrial complex in the US is incredibly warped, the amount of money spent and numbers of players playing is huge, particularly on the women's side. And that there's no FINANCIAL incentive for actually developing players and teams, only filling slots. (why some teams have 18 players on it seems, nuts, leads to disgruntled players , lack of playing time, high quitting/turnover - strictly done for finances.) If at any point in time latin america tones down their chauvinism and treats women the same in men's soccer they will be kicking our butts on the women's side.
CASL should be paying her to play for them, not the other way around.

http://www.trianglefc.org/news_article/show/485676?referrer_id=952873

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]

The girl was at CASL prior to moving to TFC, and has trained extensively the last few years while at TFC with current CASL coaches, so plenty of credit to go around, though the girl should get most of it.

I think there is some movement (maybe small) at the top levels on the girls side to subsidize the cost for some training and travel. The WNT camps are free (to include travel), id2 is free + a lot of gear (have to pay for travel if you don't live close to the camp location), ODP National Camp is free (have to pay for travel), US Soccer Training Centers are free. Now to get into those events you have to put up a lot of money upfront in terms of club fees and training etc.

In terms of competing internationally, is it fair to say that the model that works the best is to identify talented players at a young age, assemble the best in one location with the top coaching, and have them play for years together in a full residency program? I don't know much about the boys side, but isn't part of the problem in the US that even with DA we still have a fragmented system where at the younger ages we cobble together national teams, then they break apart and go play elsewhere, then we try to get them together again?




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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by MySonsPlay

Quote:
Originally posted by Anony

Quote:
Originally posted by AHW



_____________

Indeed. She (and her devoted parents) get all of the credit for her development on her own time outside of team trainings. She's the hardest working girl in the triangle. Best of luck to her in her new adventure.



likely absolutely true. Am in no way minimizing her efforts and talent! When she commits to college my point is CASL will get the credit even though it's clear she earned it before they even came into the picture. My larger point is the whole soccer industrial complex in the US is incredibly warped, the amount of money spent and numbers of players playing is huge, particularly on the women's side. And that there's no FINANCIAL incentive for actually developing players and teams, only filling slots. (why some teams have 18 players on it seems, nuts, leads to disgruntled players , lack of playing time, high quitting/turnover - strictly done for finances.) If at any point in time latin america tones down their chauvinism and treats women the same in men's soccer they will be kicking our butts on the women's side.
CASL should be paying her to play for them, not the other way around.

http://www.trianglefc.org/news_article/show/485676?referrer_id=952873

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]



Anony, you have made some rather enlightening comments lately especially regarding the US system being a system of talent collection rather than talent development. That hit home, so thanks, this is why I participate on the forum.

So, I will meet you half way on your comment above in regards to CASL should pay this player. How do you think CASL would react if this family just said, we will play for CASL but we are not paying any club fees.




Interesting thoughts all around. The last question has a point, we have merit scholarships in school, perhaps it is time for merit scholarships in soccer as well. Not to take anything away from the need based scholarships (Lord knows we need more of those)

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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by SoccerDad

Quote:
Originally posted by Anony

Quote:
Originally posted by AHW



_____________

Indeed. She (and her devoted parents) get all of the credit for her development on her own time outside of team trainings. She's the hardest working girl in the triangle. Best of luck to her in her new adventure.



likely absolutely true. Am in no way minimizing her efforts and talent! When she commits to college my point is CASL will get the credit even though it's clear she earned it before they even came into the picture. My larger point is the whole soccer industrial complex in the US is incredibly warped, the amount of money spent and numbers of players playing is huge, particularly on the women's side. And that there's no FINANCIAL incentive for actually developing players and teams, only filling slots. (why some teams have 18 players on it seems, nuts, leads to disgruntled players , lack of playing time, high quitting/turnover - strictly done for finances.) If at any point in time latin america tones down their chauvinism and treats women the same in men's soccer they will be kicking our butts on the women's side.
CASL should be paying her to play for them, not the other way around.

http://www.trianglefc.org/news_article/show/485676?referrer_id=952873

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]

The girl was at CASL prior to moving to TFC, and has trained extensively the last few years while at TFC with current CASL coaches, so plenty of credit to go around, though the girl should get most of it.

I think there is some movement (maybe small) at the top levels on the girls side to subsidize the cost for some training and travel. The WNT camps are free (to include travel), id2 is free + a lot of gear (have to pay for travel if you don't live close to the camp location), ODP National Camp is free (have to pay for travel), US Soccer Training Centers are free. Now to get into those events you have to put up a lot of money upfront in terms of club fees and training etc.

In terms of competing internationally, is it fair to say that the model that works the best is to identify talented players at a young age, assemble the best in one location with the top coaching, and have them play for years together in a full residency program? I don't know much about the boys side, but isn't part of the problem in the US that even with DA we still have a fragmented system where at the younger ages we cobble together national teams, then they break apart and go play elsewhere, then we try to get them together again?






But doesn't this eliminate the possibility of identifying late bloomers or new entrants?

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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by SoccerDad



In terms of competing internationally, is it fair to say that the model that works the best is to identify talented players at a young age, assemble the best in one location with the top coaching, and have them play for years together in a full residency program? I don't know much about the boys side, but isn't part of the problem in the US that even with DA we still have a fragmented system where at the younger ages we cobble together national teams, then they break apart and go play elsewhere, then we try to get them together again?







I think we only need to look at which sport(s) the US does well in internationally that other countries participate in. It would likely be basketball. Kids start playing at early ages it is very very cheap. Lots of contact hours. Unstructured. Inner city kids can do it. Travel time to practice sites is minimal in most cases since cities have high densities. AAU travel teams often have sponsorships and cost to players is small. For some reason when it comes to US soccer, kids rarely play unstructured - costs are high and since it's more suburban travel times can be large. Plus AAU teams don't have permanent administration, "directors of coaching" and layers of other employees. Generally just the coach. Also, basketball teams are generally smaller than soccer so even less revenue per team. Maybe coaches make a lot more money in soccer or "profit" goes somewhere to a president or other club official. Not sure why costs are higher for soccer especially since I would think basketball indoor facilities cost more than fields.

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]

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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by tokoli


Interesting thoughts all around. The last question has a point, we have merit scholarships in school, perhaps it is time for merit scholarships in soccer as well. Not to take anything away from the need based scholarships (Lord knows we need more of those)




If ECNL really wanted to improve US soccer they would mandate each ECNL team carry two economic need scholarship players, to actually force these clubs to do outreach at early ages and establish a pipeline. Get Nike or Under Armour to sponsor them etc...

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]

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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by tokoli

Quote:
Originally posted by SoccerDad

Quote:
Originally posted by Anony

Quote:
Originally posted by AHW



_____________

Indeed. She (and her devoted parents) get all of the credit for her development on her own time outside of team trainings. She's the hardest working girl in the triangle. Best of luck to her in her new adventure.



likely absolutely true. Am in no way minimizing her efforts and talent! When she commits to college my point is CASL will get the credit even though it's clear she earned it before they even came into the picture. My larger point is the whole soccer industrial complex in the US is incredibly warped, the amount of money spent and numbers of players playing is huge, particularly on the women's side. And that there's no FINANCIAL incentive for actually developing players and teams, only filling slots. (why some teams have 18 players on it seems, nuts, leads to disgruntled players , lack of playing time, high quitting/turnover - strictly done for finances.) If at any point in time latin america tones down their chauvinism and treats women the same in men's soccer they will be kicking our butts on the women's side.
CASL should be paying her to play for them, not the other way around.

http://www.trianglefc.org/news_article/show/485676?referrer_id=952873

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]

The girl was at CASL prior to moving to TFC, and has trained extensively the last few years while at TFC with current CASL coaches, so plenty of credit to go around, though the girl should get most of it.

I think there is some movement (maybe small) at the top levels on the girls side to subsidize the cost for some training and travel. The WNT camps are free (to include travel), id2 is free + a lot of gear (have to pay for travel if you don't live close to the camp location), ODP National Camp is free (have to pay for travel), US Soccer Training Centers are free. Now to get into those events you have to put up a lot of money upfront in terms of club fees and training etc.

In terms of competing internationally, is it fair to say that the model that works the best is to identify talented players at a young age, assemble the best in one location with the top coaching, and have them play for years together in a full residency program? I don't know much about the boys side, but isn't part of the problem in the US that even with DA we still have a fragmented system where at the younger ages we cobble together national teams, then they break apart and go play elsewhere, then we try to get them together again?






But doesn't this eliminate the possibility of identifying late bloomers or new entrants?




All sports are incredibly rough on late bloomers, these athletes have to have incredible fortitude and desire. There just are not that many Stephen Curry, on my list of all-time great late bloomers.

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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by SoccerDad

Quote:
Originally posted by TwoHalves

With the first day of tryouts in the books, how did it go?

Impressive showing in terms of numbers at both TFCA and CASL tryouts. With CASL South ramping up the Triangle will have enough "classic" teams to form their own leagues.

2 players from top TFCA current U14 girls team trying out at CASL, including top goalie in TFCA.
4 players from top TFCA current U13 girls team trying out at CASL.

Older girls tried out earlier so not sure of flow between clubs in those ages.



It would be interesting to know what the flow was between the other large club in the Triangle (TUSA) and CASL and TFCA. Any takers?

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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:36 AM
I can only speak for TUSA U13 girls (rising U14) there are at least 4 from TUSA top team trying out at either TFCA or CASL. I suspect there might be one or two more that I'm not 100% sure on.

[Edited on 5/19/15 by soccermonty69]

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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anony

Quote:
Originally posted by SoccerDad



In terms of competing internationally, is it fair to say that the model that works the best is to identify talented players at a young age, assemble the best in one location with the top coaching, and have them play for years together in a full residency program? I don't know much about the boys side, but isn't part of the problem in the US that even with DA we still have a fragmented system where at the younger ages we cobble together national teams, then they break apart and go play elsewhere, then we try to get them together again?







I think we only need to look at which sport(s) the US does well in internationally that other countries participate in. It would likely be basketball. Kids start playing at early ages it is very very cheap. Lots of contact hours. Unstructured. Inner city kids can do it. Travel time to practice sites is minimal in most cases since cities have high densities. AAU travel teams often have sponsorships and cost to players is small. For some reason when it comes to US soccer, kids rarely play unstructured - costs are high and since it's more suburban travel times can be large. Plus AAU teams don't have permanent administration, "directors of coaching" and layers of other employees. Generally just the coach. Also, basketball teams are generally smaller than soccer so even less revenue per team. Maybe coaches make a lot more money in soccer or "profit" goes somewhere to a president or other club official. Not sure why costs are higher for soccer especially since I would think basketball indoor facilities cost more than fields.

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]



Just to play devil's advocate, the US has been traditionally strong in Women's gymnastics and figure skating, both extremely expensive pay-to-play sports that are highly structured. In both cases, our Olympic teams have had to compete against countries that pluck kids as early as 4 years old away from their families to groom them to be champions.

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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anony


I think we only need to look at which sport(s) the US does well in internationally that other countries participate in. It would likely be basketball. Kids start playing at early ages it is very very cheap. Lots of contact hours. Unstructured. Inner city kids can do it. Travel time to practice sites is minimal in most cases since cities have high densities. AAU travel teams often have sponsorships and cost to players is small. For some reason when it comes to US soccer, kids rarely play unstructured - costs are high and since it's more suburban travel times can be large. Plus AAU teams don't have permanent administration, "directors of coaching" and layers of other employees. Generally just the coach. Also, basketball teams are generally smaller than soccer so even less revenue per team. Maybe coaches make a lot more money in soccer or "profit" goes somewhere to a president or other club official. Not sure why costs are higher for soccer especially since I would think basketball indoor facilities cost more than fields.

[Edited on 5/19/15 by Anony]



Unfortunately, there is a big difference between soccer and basketball in the US..............
money
If an AAU coach develops talent and feeds them into college and/or the NBA, there are incentives for him/her.
I do agree that having kids be able to have unstructured play is important but we already have that. Go to any town with a large hispanic population and you will see impromptu games just about anywhere. The issue is getting this talent into the mainstream. And that is where the money comes in. It has to come from somewhere and if there are no clubs paying for development, parents have to chip in.

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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by tokoli

Quote:
Originally posted by SoccerDad

Quote:
Originally posted by TwoHalves

With the first day of tryouts in the books, how did it go?

Impressive showing in terms of numbers at both TFCA and CASL tryouts. With CASL South ramping up the Triangle will have enough "classic" teams to form their own leagues.

2 players from top TFCA current U14 girls team trying out at CASL, including top goalie in TFCA.
4 players from top TFCA current U13 girls team trying out at CASL.

Older girls tried out earlier so not sure of flow between clubs in those ages.



It would be interesting to know what the flow was between the other large club in the Triangle (TUSA) and CASL and TFCA. Any takers?



TUSA younger ages lost a couple players to other clubs. XL does not start until tonight and I can report that about 30 of their kids were at various triangle club tryouts. It must be noted that not only did these parents take advantage of the non-overlapping day but are truly praying their kid can make a decent team at the other clubs just so they can get away from XL. I know there are a lot of XL fans on this board but that's just the truth of it. TFCA reported that they had a record number of tryout registrations. I do know there were some U13 and up at other clubs last night but don't know about the younger age groups.

What's going in in Charlotte? There was a lot of talk about coaching changes there, any #s of note?

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posted on 5/19/15 at 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by cataroni

Just to play devil's advocate, the US has been traditionally strong in Women's gymnastics and figure skating, both extremely expensive pay-to-play sports that are highly structured. In both cases, our Olympic teams have had to compete against countries that pluck kids as early as 4 years old away from their families to groom them to be champions.




But in those sports, you have the same systems. In one case, the government pays, in the other (the US) the parent pays. There is no system there where large numbers of poor kids skate at night on frozen ponds for hours just for fun.

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