Quote:
Originally posted by dose of reality

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

I hate to even say this, but I'm going to anyway, every university level scout that I know, including myself, does not give club play deference to playing in high school. Every one that I know, granted there are only 5, and 2 scout for D I schools, value the input from the HS coach, AD, and education leadership over the input of the club system in NC.
I don't want to kill the herd on this one, but that is my experience. Certainly there are other opinions, and you all are welcome to them.

I have yet to see a college coach at a high school game unless he was there for a specific player.

Quote:
Originally posted by dose of reality

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

I hate to even say this, but I'm going to anyway, every university level scout that I know, including myself, does not give club play deference to playing in high school. Every one that I know, granted there are only 5, and 2 scout for D I schools, value the input from the HS coach, AD, and education leadership over the input of the club system in NC.
I don't want to kill the herd on this one, but that is my experience. Certainly there are other opinions, and you all are welcome to them.

I have yet to see a college coach at a high school game unless he was there for a specific player.

Quote:
Originally posted by jerry

Quote:
Originally posted by dose of reality

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

I hate to even say this, but I'm going to anyway, every university level scout that I know, including myself, does not give club play deference to playing in high school. Every one that I know, granted there are only 5, and 2 scout for D I schools, value the input from the HS coach, AD, and education leadership over the input of the club system in NC.
I don't want to kill the herd on this one, but that is my experience. Certainly there are other opinions, and you all are welcome to them.

I have yet to see a college coach at a high school game unless he was there for a specific player.

Would have to strongly agree. In today's world, probably the only sport that colleges recruit kids from "high school" experience is football and that's because there's no other avenue to do so (besides camps and combines). Sports like basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, and soccer all have AAU or "travel" teams were the better players play in tournaments and festivals and compete against competition at the same level.

As posted earlier, you might see a college coach at a high school game but that's because they are there to see a specific player (a lot of times the player has already committed to the college and the coach is just checking in). And I'm sure there are college coaches at the state championship games.

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

Quote:
Originally posted by dose of reality

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

I hate to even say this, but I'm going to anyway, every university level scout that I know, including myself, does not give club play deference to playing in high school. Every one that I know, granted there are only 5, and 2 scout for D I schools, value the input from the HS coach, AD, and education leadership over the input of the club system in NC.
I don't want to kill the herd on this one, but that is my experience. Certainly there are other opinions, and you all are welcome to them.

I have yet to see a college coach at a high school game unless he was there for a specific player.

I've seen many college coaches at many high school games. Clemson, ECU, App. State, yada yada. Still there is no one way for this. Over here of course there are no HS teams except the DODDS schools. So they are all club teams, but I / we still talk to the school where the go to see if they are a discipline problem or not. Even, and I am sure this does happen, a student gets a offer based mostly or completely on club play, that college or university will most certainly speak with someone at the school they attend about them. Even if it is only for what kind of person they are. This has become even more true in the last 5 years.

Quote:
Originally posted by dose of reality

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

Quote:
Originally posted by dose of reality

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

I hate to even say this, but I'm going to anyway, every university level scout that I know, including myself, does not give club play deference to playing in high school. Every one that I know, granted there are only 5, and 2 scout for D I schools, value the input from the HS coach, AD, and education leadership over the input of the club system in NC.
I don't want to kill the herd on this one, but that is my experience. Certainly there are other opinions, and you all are welcome to them.

I have yet to see a college coach at a high school game unless he was there for a specific player.

I've seen many college coaches at many high school games. Clemson, ECU, App. State, yada yada. Still there is no one way for this. Over here of course there are no HS teams except the DODDS schools. So they are all club teams, but I / we still talk to the school where the go to see if they are a discipline problem or not. Even, and I am sure this does happen, a student gets a offer based mostly or completely on club play, that college or university will most certainly speak with someone at the school they attend about them. Even if it is only for what kind of person they are. This has become even more true in the last 5 years.

I can agree with that but that wasn't your initial post where you said no college scouts give deference to club play over high school play. No college coach in his right mind would go off high school play over club play. The level of competition isn't even close.

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

Quote:
Originally posted by dose of reality

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

Quote:
Originally posted by dose of reality

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

I hate to even say this, but I'm going to anyway, every university level scout that I know, including myself, does not give club play deference to playing in high school. Every one that I know, granted there are only 5, and 2 scout for D I schools, value the input from the HS coach, AD, and education leadership over the input of the club system in NC.
I don't want to kill the herd on this one, but that is my experience. Certainly there are other opinions, and you all are welcome to them.

I have yet to see a college coach at a high school game unless he was there for a specific player.

I've seen many college coaches at many high school games. Clemson, ECU, App. State, yada yada. Still there is no one way for this. Over here of course there are no HS teams except the DODDS schools. So they are all club teams, but I / we still talk to the school where the go to see if they are a discipline problem or not. Even, and I am sure this does happen, a student gets a offer based mostly or completely on club play, that college or university will most certainly speak with someone at the school they attend about them. Even if it is only for what kind of person they are. This has become even more true in the last 5 years.

I can agree with that but that wasn't your initial post where you said no college scouts give deference to club play over high school play. No college coach in his right mind would go off high school play over club play. The level of competition isn't even close.

If you are saying a large DI or D II coach would give deference to a club caoch over a HS coach, I think it has "more" to do with the total person concept. Let's face it school put a lot of money into athletes. "Most" although not all, put more faith in the HS coach, and HS personnel about the "total person." Perhaps, if they are on a quality club, or whatever, the club coach would get deference on the person's ability to paly the game, that is if they are on a club team. I don't agree that the club coach trumps the HS coach "always." Not saying there are not alot of politics in both, but the university coaches / scouts that I know "believe" that there is way more politics in club than in HS sports. I personally have never been to a club game to look at a player in the US, and I don't plan on it. Although I do know people that only scout at club events. I would also add that I have yet to have a player that I recommend become unable to play for behavior, grade, being arrested, or for any other reason. Also all of my players finsh their university years with the team.

[Edited on 6/3/10 by RonToth]

Quote:
Originally posted by jvillefreelance

Quote:
Originally posted by wavedad

Quote:
Originally posted by jvillefreelance

Quote:
Originally posted by MTRTIRE

Maybe the clubs ARE doing something correct - despite all that has been said on the forum. The clubs were set up in the mid 70's to be the feeders to the high schools. These development rec/challenge and classic programs are doing what they were designed to do. Provide the high schools with strong and talented players. Southwest is made up of largely of OCSA players which in reality, OCSA acts as an extension for the SW classic program. Swansboro has a large contingent of SSA players (challenge and classic) and a mixture of players from other clubs including OCSA.

Year after Year - for all the belly-aching - not bad!

Way to go SWHS and SHS!

Most things that were set up in the 70's prove to be inefficient if not completely obsolete. In the 70's it may have been more important to feed high school programs, now it is quite the opposite. In all truth an area's level of talent is truly judged by club results (final four appearances, state titles, number of teams in top flight, rIIIpl, USYS rankings, amount of players involved with state/regional ODP).

to butcher and splice quotes.... Success is in the eye of the beholder...

Perhaps the success at the HS level in Onslow more than makes up for RIII teams, NCYSA state titles (although they have some of both I believe.) for the players up there. If so, good for them. How many players can say they have won a State HS Championship? Not too many. And Onslow has had as much if not more success in that arena than any other county I can think of.

IMO, once most players (that have a rational grasp on the game and their own abilities) realize that high school success is not as prestigious as club success. I am not saying that it is pointless, meaningless, or something that shouldn't be looked back on fondly (I have a NCHSAA state championship ring) but I would trade it in a second for a NCYSA State Title of R3PL title and trip to regionals (ie shot at nationals), and my club team was very close.

Quote:
Originally posted by robkimsay

Quote:
Originally posted by jvillefreelance

Quote:
Originally posted by wavedad

Quote:
Originally posted by jvillefreelance

Quote:
Originally posted by MTRTIRE

Maybe the clubs ARE doing something correct - despite all that has been said on the forum. The clubs were set up in the mid 70's to be the feeders to the high schools. These development rec/challenge and classic programs are doing what they were designed to do. Provide the high schools with strong and talented players. Southwest is made up of largely of OCSA players which in reality, OCSA acts as an extension for the SW classic program. Swansboro has a large contingent of SSA players (challenge and classic) and a mixture of players from other clubs including OCSA.

Year after Year - for all the belly-aching - not bad!

Way to go SWHS and SHS!

Most things that were set up in the 70's prove to be inefficient if not completely obsolete. In the 70's it may have been more important to feed high school programs, now it is quite the opposite. In all truth an area's level of talent is truly judged by club results (final four appearances, state titles, number of teams in top flight, rIIIpl, USYS rankings, amount of players involved with state/regional ODP).

to butcher and splice quotes.... Success is in the eye of the beholder...

Perhaps the success at the HS level in Onslow more than makes up for RIII teams, NCYSA state titles (although they have some of both I believe.) for the players up there. If so, good for them. How many players can say they have won a State HS Championship? Not too many. And Onslow has had as much if not more success in that arena than any other county I can think of.

IMO, once most players (that have a rational grasp on the game and their own abilities) realize that high school success is not as prestigious as club success. I am not saying that it is pointless, meaningless, or something that shouldn't be looked back on fondly (I have a NCHSAA state championship ring) but I would trade it in a second for a NCYSA State Title of R3PL title and trip to regionals (ie shot at nationals), and my club team was very close.

I agree that a National Championship or a Region III Championship in club soccer may carry more prestige to the college crowd than a state title in any one of the NCHSAA groups, but I doubt it will diminish the accomplishment to most of the players and or parents. Locally, a High School Championship is the crowing achievement and will merit a great deal of press over any accomplishment in the local club scene. Some of the local players can even boarder on Rockstar status locally from their High School soccer exploits, but never see their name in print around the club scene.

Onslow County simply can’t compete in club soccer the way it does in High School soccer, the area club model is too fractured to compete at the highest levels year after year in multiple age groups. The discombobulated mess of the local club scene is only going to become more evident as all of these “Super Mergers” happen across the state in club soccer, great teams are only going to get, well, greater.

With CSA going strong out of Charlotte, this Fusion thing happening up north, the club scene is only going to continue to struggle in Onslow County to get to the highest levels. The current club atmosphere does however suit the local High School model by geography, most people in the area must be just fine with that. Heaven forbid more than a half hour drive to practice!

I think it is safe to say that nearly every single age group from say CASL outnumbers every single soccer club in Onslow County by themselves, counting Rec/Challenge and Classic teams. It is very hard to compete with that in every age group and both genders year in and year out and the gap is only going to widen as clubs continue to merge across the state. Speaking in generalities, the overall soccer community of Onslow County seems fairly oblivious to what is going on around them in club soccer world and some in the area are seem content or hell-bent to keep it that way.

There are going to be exceptions from time to time, a great team from OCSA, JASA or SSA may even make it to Region III again someday, but it will be an exceptional team, not the rule – this has been the history in the area since before OCSA’s inception.

I believe at some point, there will be an awakening, a renascence if you will in the area around the club scene in Onslow County. There will come a time that the parents are going to look past High School Soccer accomplishments for something more and bring the best players together to make a concerted run on the club scene as well, but until that happens, the area is where it is and will continue to get what it has always gotten; an occasional bolt of “lightening in a can” that will make a splash in the soccer club scene across the state.
As with all my posts, just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal

^^"robkimsay".....good post with good points. I remember parents complaining about a 20 minute drive. lol. One year I took my player to training every other Sunday in Winston Salem (Wake Forest) for a couple months (from J'ville).

[Edited on 6/3/10 by Cardinal]

Quote:
Originally posted by dose of reality

. No college coach in his right mind would go off high school play over club play. The level of competition isn't even close.

Quote:
Originally posted by dose of reality

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

Quote:
Originally posted by dose of reality

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

Quote:
Originally posted by dose of reality

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

I hate to even say this, but I'm going to anyway, every university level scout that I know, including myself, does not give club play deference to playing in high school. Every one that I know, granted there are only 5, and 2 scout for D I schools, value the input from the HS coach, AD, and education leadership over the input of the club system in NC.
I don't want to kill the herd on this one, but that is my experience. Certainly there are other opinions, and you all are welcome to them.

I have yet to see a college coach at a high school game unless he was there for a specific player.

I've seen many college coaches at many high school games. Clemson, ECU, App. State, yada yada. Still there is no one way for this. Over here of course there are no HS teams except the DODDS schools. So they are all club teams, but I / we still talk to the school where the go to see if they are a discipline problem or not. Even, and I am sure this does happen, a student gets a offer based mostly or completely on club play, that college or university will most certainly speak with someone at the school they attend about them. Even if it is only for what kind of person they are. This has become even more true in the last 5 years.

I can agree with that but that wasn't your initial post where you said no college scouts give deference to club play over high school play. No college coach in his right mind would go off high school play over club play. The level of competition isn't even close.

If you are saying a large DI or D II coach would give deference to a club caoch over a HS coach, I think it has "more" to do with the total person concept. Let's face it school put a lot of money into athletes. "Most" although not all, put more faith in the HS coach, and HS personnel about the "total person." Perhaps, if they are on a quality club, or whatever, the club coach would get deference on the person's ability to paly the game, that is if they are on a club team. I don't agree that the club coach trumps the HS coach "always." Not saying there are not alot of politics in both, but the university coaches / scouts that I know "believe" that there is way more politics in club than in HS sports. I personally have never been to a club game to look at a player in the US, and I don't plan on it. Although I do know people that only scout at club events. I would also add that I have yet to have a player that I recommend become unable to play for behavior, grade, being arrested, or for any other reason. Also all of my players finsh their university years with the team.

[Edited on 6/3/10 by RonToth]

The high school has to be involved since most universities need your academic background and it has to be involved to get through the ncaa clearinghouse.

If you are a Div 1 scout and aren't going to club events...

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

Quote:
Originally posted by Sven with Braces

And you played who.....

Topsail Island......

Yes, and Topsail is usually good. Who do you play?

Quote:
Originally posted by Sven with Braces

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

Quote:
Originally posted by Sven with Braces

And you played who.....

Topsail Island......

Yes, and Topsail is usually good. Who do you play?

My son was playing club that weekend and I thought " darn this will be good I can watch some of these "top girls" play this weekend". It was not much to see. I was not impressed.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sven with Braces

No Censored , what I'm saying is how everyone talks about how great these coast teams are and I was interested in watching them play.
After watching them, it was similar to a second division game (or match to your self righteous ego).

Quote:
Originally posted by RonToth

Quote:
Originally posted by Sven with Braces

No Censored , what I'm saying is how everyone talks about how great these coast teams are and I was interested in watching them play.
After watching them, it was similar to a second division game (or match to your self righteous ego).

Let me try this again. So basically a group of people think the coastal teams are good, so you went to see them play. Based upon that snap shot, your statement is that they are not very good? Did I get that right? Great use of forum rule #1. "I think something is true, therefore it is, and everyone should agree with me." I am the one with the self-righteous ego?

[Edited on 6/24/10 by RonToth]