Quote:
Originally posted by FirstTouch

I'd add that since this is a GIRL'S game rather than a boy's game, one characteristic difference is that when you ref a girl's game, you need to be aware that girls are more inclined to bide their time after the originally provoking incident to exact tit-for-tat, and something can happen in the game 20 minutes later that is in fact meant to be the continuation of or tit-for-tat retaliation for the original incident. And many girls are somewhat crafty about how they go about it. And so if the attacker does get taken down hard several minutes later (or even the center who said the original words in question), I'd be much more inclined to yellow-card the perp than without the context.

Boys tend to immediately escalate from some provocation, and if you can quickly control it (with or without cards), it will far more times than not simply blow over. Shove or hard words tend to be immediately responded to with more hard words and shove etc, with boys.

Quote:
Originally posted by ncguy3

Quote:
Originally posted by FirstTouch

I'd add that since this is a GIRL'S game rather than a boy's game, one characteristic difference is that when you ref a girl's game, you need to be aware that girls are more inclined to bide their time after the originally provoking incident to exact tit-for-tat, and something can happen in the game 20 minutes later that is in fact meant to be the continuation of or tit-for-tat retaliation for the original incident. And many girls are somewhat crafty about how they go about it. And so if the attacker does get taken down hard several minutes later (or even the center who said the original words in question), I'd be much more inclined to yellow-card the perp than without the context.

Boys tend to immediately escalate from some provocation, and if you can quickly control it (with or without cards), it will far more times than not simply blow over. Shove or hard words tend to be immediately responded to with more hard words and shove etc, with boys.

After 25 years of marriage I can vouch for your assessment of the 'girl's' game.

Quote:
Originally posted by ncguy3

Quote:
Originally posted by FirstTouch

I'd add that since this is a GIRL'S game rather than a boy's game, one characteristic difference is that when you ref a girl's game, you need to be aware that girls are more inclined to bide their time after the originally provoking incident to exact tit-for-tat, and something can happen in the game 20 minutes later that is in fact meant to be the continuation of or tit-for-tat retaliation for the original incident. And many girls are somewhat crafty about how they go about it. And so if the attacker does get taken down hard several minutes later (or even the center who said the original words in question), I'd be much more inclined to yellow-card the perp than without the context.

Boys tend to immediately escalate from some provocation, and if you can quickly control it (with or without cards), it will far more times than not simply blow over. Shove or hard words tend to be immediately responded to with more hard words and shove etc, with boys.

After 25 years of marriage I can vouch for your assessment of the 'girl's' game.

Quote:
Originally posted by OBX Soul Surfer

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm looking for an answer from a certified NC High School Soccer Referee, not an opinion from the bleachers.

Quote:
Originally posted by FirstTouch

Everything is context, which you've done as nice a job of filling in succinctly as possible without being there, but still as a ref YHTBT (what is the overall emotional temperature of the game? How physical a match has it been up to this point, and how many actual fouls has the ref needed to call (and of what sort?) Etc.

NONETHETELESS, WITH THAT CAVEAT, here's my probable take on it with what you've presented so far:
1) POSSIBILITY ONE (mid doesn't oblige) - I AT LEAST will have words with the center back in passing, loud enough for all players to hear, (I'm making up the center back's number here) - #21 !!! That better not happen, or you're out of here for taunting an opponent!" ...or possibly stop the game and yellow-card her. If the game is more volatile, a yellow-card - as needed.
2) POSSIBILITY TWO (mid does oblige) - AT LEAST a yellow for both the center-back and the holding mid. If the attack is forceful enough, a red to the holding mid, and red or yellow for the center-back, depending on how demeanor in saying it...possibly a red for taunting (that language is certainly at the very least unsportingly inciting and meant to seriously throw the opponent off her game).

Quote:
Originally posted by Why Not

Quote:
Originally posted by OBX Soul Surfer

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm looking for an answer from a certified NC High School Soccer Referee, not an opinion from the bleachers.

Come on, OBX. Everybody knows that if you only want certified NC High School Referees to respond to your OP, you have to say so in the title of your thread. It's an unwritten rule.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tornado66

Quote:
Originally posted by FirstTouch

Everything is context, which you've done as nice a job of filling in succinctly as possible without being there, but still as a ref YHTBT (what is the overall emotional temperature of the game? How physical a match has it been up to this point, and how many actual fouls has the ref needed to call (and of what sort?) Etc.

NONETHETELESS, WITH THAT CAVEAT, here's my probable take on it with what you've presented so far:
1) POSSIBILITY ONE (mid doesn't oblige) - I AT LEAST will have words with the center back in passing, loud enough for all players to hear, (I'm making up the center back's number here) - #21 !!! That better not happen, or you're out of here for taunting an opponent!" ...or possibly stop the game and yellow-card her. If the game is more volatile, a yellow-card - as needed.
2) POSSIBILITY TWO (mid does oblige) - AT LEAST a yellow for both the center-back and the holding mid. If the attack is forceful enough, a red to the holding mid, and red or yellow for the center-back, depending on how demeanor in saying it...possibly a red for taunting (that language is certainly at the very least unsportingly inciting and meant to seriously throw the opponent off her game).

I wouldnt be that upset at "knock her down". Soccer is a contact sport and there are fair ways of knocking someone down....so the comment in and of itself I don't think can be viewed as that unsporting. Now the common term, "take him/her out" comes across somewhat differently. I think a card could be useful if you think the comment will lead to losing control of the match...

Quote:
Originally posted by Tornado66

I wouldnt be that upset at "knock her down". Soccer is a contact sport and there are fair ways of knocking someone down....so the comment in and of itself I don't think can be viewed as that unsporting.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tornado66

Quote:
Originally posted by FirstTouch

Everything is context, which you've done as nice a job of filling in succinctly as possible without being there, but still as a ref YHTBT (what is the overall emotional temperature of the game? How physical a match has it been up to this point, and how many actual fouls has the ref needed to call (and of what sort?) Etc.

NONETHETELESS, WITH THAT CAVEAT, here's my probable take on it with what you've presented so far:
1) POSSIBILITY ONE (mid doesn't oblige) - I AT LEAST will have words with the center back in passing, loud enough for all players to hear, (I'm making up the center back's number here) - #21 !!! That better not happen, or you're out of here for taunting an opponent!" ...or possibly stop the game and yellow-card her. If the game is more volatile, a yellow-card - as needed.
2) POSSIBILITY TWO (mid does oblige) - AT LEAST a yellow for both the center-back and the holding mid. If the attack is forceful enough, a red to the holding mid, and red or yellow for the center-back, depending on how demeanor in saying it...possibly a red for taunting (that language is certainly at the very least unsportingly inciting and meant to seriously throw the opponent off her game).

I wouldnt be that upset at "knock her down". Soccer is a contact sport and there are fair ways of knocking someone down....so the comment in and of itself I don't think can be viewed as that unsporting. Now the common term, "take him/her out" comes across somewhat differently. I think a card could be useful if you think the comment will lead to losing control of the match...

Quote:
Originally posted by FirstTouch

Quote:
Originally posted by Tornado66

Quote:
Originally posted by FirstTouch

Everything is context, which you've done as nice a job of filling in succinctly as possible without being there, but still as a ref YHTBT (what is the overall emotional temperature of the game? How physical a match has it been up to this point, and how many actual fouls has the ref needed to call (and of what sort?) Etc.

NONETHETELESS, WITH THAT CAVEAT, here's my probable take on it with what you've presented so far:
1) POSSIBILITY ONE (mid doesn't oblige) - I AT LEAST will have words with the center back in passing, loud enough for all players to hear, (I'm making up the center back's number here) - #21 !!! That better not happen, or you're out of here for taunting an opponent!" ...or possibly stop the game and yellow-card her. If the game is more volatile, a yellow-card - as needed.
2) POSSIBILITY TWO (mid does oblige) - AT LEAST a yellow for both the center-back and the holding mid. If the attack is forceful enough, a red to the holding mid, and red or yellow for the center-back, depending on how demeanor in saying it...possibly a red for taunting (that language is certainly at the very least unsportingly inciting and meant to seriously throw the opponent off her game).

I wouldnt be that upset at "knock her down". Soccer is a contact sport and there are fair ways of knocking someone down....so the comment in and of itself I don't think can be viewed as that unsporting. Now the common term, "take him/her out" comes across somewhat differently. I think a card could be useful if you think the comment will lead to losing control of the match...

WADR Tornado, "knock her down" is not the sort of language that's EVER in my experience been intended as a call to a teammate to make fair physical challenge against an opponent. The plain intent is to incite a teammate to physically intimidate an opponent by means that plainly invite foul contact if necessary to get the job done.

This is quite distinguishable from calls to a teammate "get physical"...e.g. "you need to get more physical"...which does not carry any necessary implication at all that intimidation-by-fouling is the intended means, and which is well within the proper spirit of soccer as a physical game.

Nope, the comment at hand "knock her down" is NOT benign, and should NOT be ignored by the CR, even though in context, it might perhaps be dealt with adequately with a sharp word to the perp, rather than a card.