madcap
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 04:46 AM |
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I'm taking MY ball and going home.
Heard a frustrated ref took the ball and was calling the game in the 1st half during a RIII game this weekend. Apparently he was coaxed back but what
a weird scenario. Anyone have first hand knowledge of this or a similar story? It had to be somewhat comical.
[Edited on 2/18/2008 by madcap]
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dose of reality
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 08:34 AM |
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I saw a similar game at Ramblewood last year. The ref had clearly lost control of the game and a couple players were out of control. Instead of
giving those kids red cards or even a yellow he just called the game early.
I didn't even know a ref had that power.
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Big Daddy
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 09:15 AM |
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Happened during the Greensboro-CUFC Gold boys game. Referee and AR were frustrated with one of the coaches, who was unhappy with the consistency of
the calls and was voicing his displeasure. AR on coaches side had a VERY low threshold for this and was ready to toss the coach early on.
Coach was vocal....bit not out of the ordinary, nor was he profane or remotely abusive. Refs just had not interest in hearing anything.
CR picked up the ball in an effort to force the coach to leave the field. Other coach intervened, other AR walked over, and they agreed to continue
on...with "offending coach" agreeing not to say anything more.
Game continued and ended.....without further issue.
Game ended in a 1-1 draw.
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Upper90
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 10:19 AM |
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Quote:
Originally posted by jagnew
Happened during the Greensboro-CUFC Gold boys game. Referee and AR were frustrated with one of the coaches, who was unhappy with the consistency of
the calls and was voicing his displeasure. AR on coaches side had a VERY low threshold for this and was ready to toss the coach early on.
Coach was vocal....bit not out of the ordinary, nor was he profane or remotely abusive. Refs just had not interest in hearing anything.
CR picked up the ball in an effort to force the coach to leave the field. Other coach intervened, other AR walked over, and they agreed to continue
on...with "offending coach" agreeing not to say anything more.
Game continued and ended.....without further issue.
Game ended in a 1-1 draw.
Let me guess....that wouldn't be the CUFC coach, would it?
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Tornado66
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 10:27 AM |
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Yes, the refs have that power, to terminate a match. Usually happens with an irrate coach or fan that will not leave "sight and sound" of the field
when aked to do so by the ref.
You dont see it very often, but sometimes it does come up, even with the best of refs. In the thousands of matches I have reffed, I have terminated
exactly ONE. It was in the Winston Tournament 15 years ago when on Sunday morning a team from FL that was already not going thru was playing a NC
team that already was in the final, but was just playing the third and meaningless match, the FL team started out with some very serious fouls, then
would get up and laugh...the coaches were laughing as well and did nothing to encourage their players to stop. In the interest of the safety of the
players and in light of the FL coaches unwillingness to compete fairly and have their players to do so, I terminated the match. There was nothing I
could do short of redcarding everyone on FL to stop what was going on, other than do what I did and terminate the match...
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Big Daddy
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 10:59 AM |
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Quote:Originally posted by Upper90
Quote:
Originally posted by jagnew
Happened during the Greensboro-CUFC Gold boys game. Referee and AR were frustrated with one of the coaches, who was unhappy with the consistency of
the calls and was voicing his displeasure. AR on coaches side had a VERY low threshold for this and was ready to toss the coach early on.
Coach was vocal....bit not out of the ordinary, nor was he profane or remotely abusive. Refs just had not interest in hearing anything.
CR picked up the ball in an effort to force the coach to leave the field. Other coach intervened, other AR walked over, and they agreed to continue
on...with "offending coach" agreeing not to say anything more.
Game continued and ended.....without further issue.
Game ended in a 1-1 draw.
Let me guess....that wouldn't be the CUFC coach, would it?
Doesn't really matter does it?
I'm not criticizing the ref or the coach. Someone asked about what happened and I explained it. I've seen beligerent coaches before as well as
obnoxious refs. Yesterday, neither party fit the description.
Just a weird situation. Both sides should be commended for settling down and not letting it effect the game.
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Sven with bad teeth
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 11:39 AM |
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Quote:
Originally posted by jagnew
Happened during the Greensboro-CUFC Gold boys game. Referee and AR were frustrated with one of the coaches, who was unhappy with the consistency of
the calls and was voicing his displeasure. AR on coaches side had a VERY low threshold for this and was ready to toss the coach early on.
Coach was vocal....bit not out of the ordinary, nor was he profane or remotely abusive. Refs just had not interest in hearing anything.
CR picked up the ball in an effort to force the coach to leave the field. Other coach intervened, other AR walked over, and they agreed to continue
on...with "offending coach" agreeing not to say anything more.
Game continued and ended.....without further issue.
Game ended in a 1-1 draw.
Hmmm...might that be the 92 CUFC Gold coach??
" A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate,because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can
understand."
Bertrand Russell
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Upper90
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 01:48 PM |
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As a parent paying to have a coach develop my kid, I would be concerned about a coach spending too much time officiating, and not enough time
coaching. 
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Big Daddy
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 02:43 PM |
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Coaching and developing are two different things.
I would argue (pun intended) that a certain amount of ref management is an integral part of game coaching. People can question the value or payback
on doing it....but I'm not sure I've ever been to a game in any sport or at any level where a coach didn't question a call or a pattern of calls.
They don't need to be boorish, vulgar, or insulting....to do so however.
The coach in question wasn't any of the above.
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blue
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 03:07 PM |
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Been to enough games to know all really good coaches can get caught up in the game. The ref should take control and if the coach cant behave, the
coach should be expelled. It doesnt matter what club the coach comes from (3 excellent coaches come to mind, all from different clubs in the 89 age
group alone) they can get carried away. A lot of times this has the desired effect on their own team and gets them pumped up too. Sure beats a coach
that doesnt care and just sits there....As long as the ref lets the coach know when he/she has reached their limit, and they respond accordingly, it
shouldnt be an issue.
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Wreave
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 03:14 PM |
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As T66 said, yes, the referees do have the authority to terminate a game.
Usually, it happens if someone is ejected and refuses to leave. The offender must leave the "sight and sound" area of the field, and the game is
suspended until they are gone. If they refuse to leave in a reasonable amount of time, the ref can (and probably should) terminate the game.
T66's example is an unusual application of law 18, but probably for the good of the game.
If the players and coaches refuse to control themselves (also known as "ref losing control of the game", though he is the one with the least ability
to change the situation), as in T66's example, the game could be terminated in the interest of safety.
Regardless, the referee has the responsibility to write up an explanation of the termination in his match report.
Obsessed is just a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated.
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tileman108
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 04:38 PM |
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sure they can. they can clear the sidelines also. but the out come of the match would be up to NCYSA.
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kicksix
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 05:02 PM |
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[quote]Originally posted by jagnew
Coaching and developing are two different things.
I would argue (pun intended) that a certain amount of ref management is an integral part of game coaching. People can question the value or payback
on doing it....but I'm not sure I've ever been to a game in any sport or at any level where a coach didn't question a call or a pattern of calls.
They don't need to be boorish, vulgar, or insulting....to do so however.
Zackly
It's all good..
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Crawdad64
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 05:03 PM |
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-Refs are power-mad control freaks who do what they want to regardless
-Coaches are nagging prima-donna's who won't shut up and are only in it for the money
-Parents are unreasonable ignorami who live vicariously through their kids
Just lock the refs, coaches & parents up somewhere, throw a ball on the field and let the kids play.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats.
H.L.Mencken
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kicksix
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 05:07 PM |
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crawdad64
-Refs are power-mad control freaks who do what they want to regardless
-Coaches are nagging prima-donna's who won't shut up and are only in it for the money
-Parents are unreasonable ignorami who live vicariously through their kids
Just lock the refs, coaches & parents up somewhere, throw a ball on the field and let the kids play.
Oh that would never work!!!! 
It's all good..
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Wreave
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 05:11 PM |
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Quote:
Originally posted by tileman108
sure they can. they can clear the sidelines also. but the out come of the match would be up to NCYSA.
Correct, and good point. The ref does not adjudicate the outcome of a terminated game (e.g. "I'm declaring this game over and declaring blue the
winner."). He simply reports the facts of play to the organizer of the competition, who is responsible for determining the outcome (replay, game
over/who wins, etc.).
Same principle for clearing the sidelines. "This game is suspended for three minutes. Everyone without a player card or coaching card must leave.
If everyone isn't gone after three minutes, this game will be terminated." If the game is then terminated, it's not necessarily with a loss to the
offending team, or a forfeit, or whatever - though that may be what the competition organizer decides.
Or, in less contentious circumstances, if a game is terminated due to foul weather. Again, the referee does not decide who wins (though the rules of
the competition may stipulate that a game played up to a certain point has a winner). He reports that the game was terminated at xx minute due to
weather, and that's it.
Obsessed is just a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated.
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Tornado66
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 05:11 PM |
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Quote:
Originally posted by jagnew
Coaching and developing are two different things.
I would argue (pun intended) that a certain amount of ref management is an integral part of game coaching. People can question the value or payback
on doing it....but I'm not sure I've ever been to a game in any sport or at any level where a coach didn't question a call or a pattern of calls.
They don't need to be boorish, vulgar, or insulting....to do so however.
The coach in question wasn't any of the above.
You know you live in the "land of Dean E. Smith" when you hear the term "ref management". Take it from a ref, it doesn't work, to your benefit at
least....
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pele2freddy
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 09:56 PM |
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tornado66
Yes, the refs have that power, to terminate a match. Usually happens with an irrate coach or fan that will not leave "sight and sound" of the field
when aked to do so by the ref.
You dont see it very often, but sometimes it does come up, even with the best of refs. In the thousands of matches I have reffed, I have terminated
exactly ONE. It was in the Winston Tournament 15 years ago when on Sunday morning a team from FL that was already not going thru was playing a NC
team that already was in the final, but was just playing the third and meaningless match, the FL team started out with some very serious fouls, then
would get up and laugh...the coaches were laughing as well and did nothing to encourage their players to stop. In the interest of the safety of the
players and in light of the FL coaches unwillingness to compete fairly and have their players to do so, I terminated the match. There was nothing I
could do short of redcarding everyone on FL to stop what was going on, other than do what I did and terminate the match...
Ref should just throw the Bum out, don't penalized the players...PLAY THE GAME>>>>>
If at first you don't succeed, you try and try again....
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Tornado66
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| posted on 2/18/08 at 10:25 PM |
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Quote:Originally posted by pele2freddy
Quote:
Originally posted by Tornado66
Yes, the refs have that power, to terminate a match. Usually happens with an irrate coach or fan that will not leave "sight and sound" of the field
when aked to do so by the ref.
You dont see it very often, but sometimes it does come up, even with the best of refs. In the thousands of matches I have reffed, I have terminated
exactly ONE. It was in the Winston Tournament 15 years ago when on Sunday morning a team from FL that was already not going thru was playing a NC
team that already was in the final, but was just playing the third and meaningless match, the FL team started out with some very serious fouls, then
would get up and laugh...the coaches were laughing as well and did nothing to encourage their players to stop. In the interest of the safety of the
players and in light of the FL coaches unwillingness to compete fairly and have their players to do so, I terminated the match. There was nothing I
could do short of redcarding everyone on FL to stop what was going on, other than do what I did and terminate the match...
Ref should just throw the Bum out, don't penalized the players...PLAY THE GAME>>>>>
it wasnt bum, it was several bums...I could red card to where they had 6 players and terminate the match that way, or just keep the safety of the
players the priority and terminate a match. A bunch of 16 y/o kids that are encouraged by their coaches to try and injure other players is not a
match that anyone wants to see continue...actually the opposing coaches and tournament officials thanked me for taking the action....
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madcap
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| posted on 2/19/08 at 05:44 AM |
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Quote:Originally posted by Tornado66
Quote:
Originally posted by jagnew
Coaching and developing are two different things.
I would argue (pun intended) that a certain amount of ref management is an integral part of game coaching. People can question the value or payback
on doing it....but I'm not sure I've ever been to a game in any sport or at any level where a coach didn't question a call or a pattern of calls.
They don't need to be boorish, vulgar, or insulting....to do so however.
The coach in question wasn't any of the above.
You know you live in the "land of Dean E. Smith" when you hear the term "ref management". Take it from a ref, it doesn't work, to your benefit at
least....
Apparently it DID work in this game because as
soon after the offending coach calmed down his team was awarded a dubious PK. I heard a defender cleared a ball out from the 6 or so and it
accidentally hit a teammates hand at the 18 and therefore the other team got a PK. You would think that that team wouldn't have received a call like
that after the coach disturbs the refs but now this call just reinforced this coaches behavior.
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